Watch the Episode: Catherine Bouchard on Automation in Manufacturing
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
In this insightful episode of the podcast, James Huysentruyt, Business Developer at PcVue Inc., sits down with Catherine Bouchard, CEO of Centris Incorporated, to discuss the integration of automation technologies in manufacturing. They delve into key topics like automation adoption challenges, the importance of effective change management, and the role of project management in ensuring successful implementations.
Catherine, with over 15 years of experience in automation, shares valuable insights on the integration of technologies like BLE and RFID for material tracking, the role of MES systems in streamlining work orders and resources, and how AI is shaping the future of manufacturing. She also emphasizes the need for continuous improvement and support post-implementation to ensure long-term success.
Key Topics Covered
- The role of automation in manufacturing
- Overcoming challenges in technology adoption
- The importance of change management and involving all staff levels for project success
- Integrating MES systems to improve efficiency
- The growing influence of AI in the manufacturing industry
- BLE and RFID technologies for tracking materials and products
- The significance of having a project champion for successful implementations
- Case studies showcasing successful automation projects
If you’re interested in technology integration, manufacturing innovation, or AI in industry, this episode is packed with valuable insights.
Discover our other podcasts
- Podcast – P1 | Mastering MES, SCADA & Change Management in Industry with Catherine Bouchard
- Podcast – P2 | Smart Manufacturing, AI and the Future of Industrial Simulation with Andrew Siprelle
Transcript
Jim Huysentruyt (00:02) Hey everyone, welcome to the new podcast series for PCVue. Today, I’m your host, Jim Heisen-Trey. I’ve been with PCVue for, I’ve been working with PCVue over 30 years. And today I have the pleasure of welcoming Catherine Bouchard from Centris Incorporated. She is the CEO and co-president. So welcome Catherine, welcome to the podcast.
Catherine Bouchard (00:31) Thank you, Jim.
Jim Huysentruyt (00:31) Okay, so just for those of you who don’t know you in the audience, maybe you could share a little bit about yourself.
Catherine Bouchard (00:38) Yeah, of course. So I have a technical background. study engineering at École de Technologie Supérieure, which is in Montreal. And so I’m an automation engineer. I have, let’s say, more than 15 years in the automation industry. I’ve been involved in, I would say, 100 or more projects, mainly with a manufacturing company.
And the main goal of these company was to automate their operation, of course, on the plant floor. using PLC’s SCADA system and MES system. I have played several roles, quality control, programmer, project manager, system engineer. Some of the project was, you know, small, other was really major project. So, yeah.
Jim Huysentruyt (01:38) Yeah. So maybe you tell, tell us a little bit about some of the services that your company provides.
Catherine Bouchard (01:38) That’s me.
Of course, so at Centris Incorporated, what we do is we work with mainly manufacturing companies. We offer analysis services so when the company doesn’t
really know where to start or they have a lot of tools in place. They want to make sure that there’s a starting point from somewhere and they want to go based on their strategic plan. Where do they define to go? So we make a plan with them and make a budgetary analysis and so on. Sometimes the client already has technology
already defined its needs or their needs and in this case we have a return key project for you know everything related to vertical integration so this is how we call it it’s mainly between the machine and the ERP system so everything which is PLC, SCADA, MES and ERP connection
We also do the integration of additional equipment, for example, BLE technology or RFID technology to track the material on the factory.
Jim Huysentruyt (03:12) And maybe we could, I just want to break it just to kind of help our audience out, you know, maybe because you have the acronyms Bailey and the RFID, maybe you could explain those two just a little bit, what they are.
Catherine Bouchard (03:15) Go ahead.
Yeah, of course, the BLE is like technology that helps to locate the material inside a plant. it’s, you know, so when you move a product from a place to another one, you will be able to know exactly where this product is. So we mainly use that type of technology to track, for example, the
I’m I forgot the word for that, but we track the material inside the plant.
Jim Huysentruyt (03:59) Right, right. you’re tracking it through the different locations so you know where it is. You could stop and start things according to getting that signal from like from the RFID or from the VLA chips.
Catherine Bouchard (04:03) Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, the RFID is a bit different. it doesn’t give you the location. It gives you information based on the tag that is on the product. So it needs to be in front of you to scan the RFID tag and get the information. So it’s a bit different. And sometimes they are used together to better localize the material. So when you have a
Jim Huysentruyt (04:32) Right.
Okay.
Catherine Bouchard (04:42) punch of parts that is moving in the plant, can know where it is and the content of the module.
Jim Huysentruyt (04:54) Nice. Okay. So I mean, those are some technologies that are being used now. It’s on top of SCADA and, you know, amongst other, you know, as far as your integrations. But, you know, so you’ve been doing this for a long time. talk about some of your main challenges going into companies and integrations and, you know, just kind of the journey from, you know, what you have to confront and…
Catherine Bouchard (05:07) Yeah.
Jim Huysentruyt (05:24) how you solve it.
Catherine Bouchard (05:25) Yeah, okay, so the main channel, I would say there’s three main channel, challenge, sorry, my English is…
And the first one I would say is sometimes people don’t think technology is necessary. And today in 2024, I think technology is the solution for a lot of things and it needs to start if it’s not started yet. So people doesn’t see that as an important issue right now, but we’re getting better.
So we need to educate people, making sure they understand because there’s a lot of technology on the market. So you need to take what is good for you, what will give you a change, a plus value in what you’re doing.
So that’s the first one. The second one is, I would say, the difficulties of selecting the good tool or the good technology for your needs. So there’s a lot of things on the market, like I said, and when you’re…
manage a plan floor, you don’t have lot of time to educate yourself and knowing all the technology by heart and so on. So you need to have people helping you deciding which one is the good one for you. And the last one and the, I would say the bigger one is the change management, including the timing.
Because change management is a big challenge right now when you talk about technology. When you mix new process, new tool with people, you need to manage that carefully.
Jim Huysentruyt (07:31) So I’m guessing that in most cases you’re coming into a manufacturing plant that’s already producing. So they’re producing something. And now it’s like, okay, now they want to upgrade technology and they have their reasons for, they want more throughput, they want to save money, the normal. So with that said, maybe you could talk about, maybe you have some examples going in and how, with some of your customers.
Catherine Bouchard (07:58) Yeah, I have a couple of examples for you for that. would say that the first one will be, let’s say the customer which is not ready. A couple of years ago, one of our customers was part of an association and people were able to visit the factory. And we installed a system there like…
15 years, maybe 20 years ago. I don’t remember exactly the date. So people was able to visit the plant and they saw the system that we put in place with them. And this company has won a couple of price because the operation on the plant floor is very efficient. And when it’s needed to be automated,
It’s automated and it’s easy to use.
The system in place is very good and used by all. This is one of the key. And the one who visits our customer, calls us and say, hey, we saw what you did, you know, and we would like to have something similar to what you’ve done there. So we start to talk and we plan a visit on site. we went there.
We agreed to start a project. They were willing and everything was in place. We had a kickoff meeting plan and We receive a call and he said stop everything We’re not ready for that change So the director, you know was well aware of the time and the management that he were that kind of change
So he called back us like one year after and he said, okay, now we can start, we’re ready. So what we’ve done to, you this is one of the challenge we see on the market and this is an example what we do at Centris to make sure that we can. Yeah, go ahead.
Jim Huysentruyt (10:18) Yeah. So just some questions because the curiosity of this, you know, so basically you’re talking about this change. So what were some of the things that you were doing with the automation? Were you putting in PLCs, doing the SCADA, the integrations? Maybe you could talk a little bit on how much change there was, not just, you know, with what you were doing. And then we could kind of relate to what the people are going to have to do.
Catherine Bouchard (10:46) That’s a good question. Actually, what they were looking for is a PLC migration first, because their product was end of life. So if the PLC would crash, they would just stop the production. So it was major.
Jim Huysentruyt (10:53) Okay.
So they had antiquated PLCs, right? So you have all these controllers and now you have to replace these controllers. About how many controllers were on this job, do you know? How many you had to replace?
Catherine Bouchard (11:19) Many, not many, because right now what we put in place is like a more bigger PLC with more capacity with remote IOs over the plan. it’s not a matter of PLC.
Jim Huysentruyt (11:29) Nice.
Okay.
So it’s a robust PLC that could control more machines.
Catherine Bouchard (11:39) Yeah, exactly. there was the PSC migration. They were looking also for a better SCADA, a better tool to manage the production and plus the connection to the ERP. They were not having that at this moment.
Jim Huysentruyt (11:50) Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So when we talk about connection to the ERP, you’re talking about downloading orders and inventory. mean, as far as if.
Catherine Bouchard (12:15) Yeah, so mainly what we do when we do a connection to ERP is we bring the work order at the plant floor level and we broke the work order into instructions, work instructions, and then send that to the machine and to the people on the plant floor so they can execute the production. And then at the gold moment or at the end,
Jim Huysentruyt (12:31) Right. Wow. Okay. Okay.
Right. Right.
Catherine Bouchard (12:44) we push all the material consumed to the ERP system. So they can update, for example, the inventory. Yeah.
Jim Huysentruyt (12:51) Okay.
Right, right, okay. Yeah, very good. And how long they been using this one now?
Catherine Bouchard (13:04) So the first installation was in 2011. So this system is… We continue to work with them, you know, because these kind of systems are live.
Jim Huysentruyt (13:17) So when you put it in, what were some of the, okay, you got to go ahead, they waited a year and then they said, okay, let’s do this. Then you got to go ahead and it’s quite a bit, because you’re talking all the way up at the financial, bring it all the way down to the plant floor as far as it goes. And now you have the change management. how do you navigate that with the customer? do you, are there?
because they’re learning new procedures, learning new system, learning. How did that go?
Catherine Bouchard (13:50) Well, I would say there’s like three key for success. The first one is involve people at all levels, director, maintenance, IT, operators, supervisor. We must understand their challenges and see how the technology will help them.
Jim Huysentruyt (14:03) Okay, right.
Catherine Bouchard (14:16) and help them, really help them because if the technology will give them more work, it’s not going to help them. It should be easy to use and have less steps than previously.
Jim Huysentruyt (14:35) All right.
Catherine Bouchard (14:36) The second one I would say is identifying a champion. So this is what we call a champion. The champion will be like the person internally that will be the reference for the project, the change. It needs to be a person who is like open-minded, human.
Jim Huysentruyt (14:44) Yep.
Catherine Bouchard (15:03) really human and who love the technology. So this person will help to have the vision and to progress in the good way. And of course, have a detailed plan and a good project management. You need to have a champion there also.
Jim Huysentruyt (15:14) Okay.
Right. Okay.
Yeah. and, know, putting that all together, right? Cause getting the buy-in, right? Cause it has to make it, you know, everybody has to buy it. Everybody has to have a reason to do this. Right. And like you said, in making it easier, that that’s, that’s good. And having an inside champion, right. That helps you navigate because he’s going to help you where there is the issues and work with you. And he’s helping.
sell it internally as you go, right? And those aren’t always easy to find. And then I’m sure that this is where you excel at Centra is having that strong project management and making sure that everybody’s doing their piece because there’s so many pieces you’re bringing together. that’s, I think definitely, and it has to work. Of course it has to work.
Catherine Bouchard (16:20) Yeah
Jim Huysentruyt (16:22) But that’s a really, I think that’s a really good, you could just circle that and just for success right there. It’s a, yeah, very good.
Catherine Bouchard (16:29) Yeah, yeah, and it brings me another example that is illustrating a little bit that point because when you know where you’re in a plant that let’s say 100 people is working there
If you want to put technology, the challenge will be human because you will change the way they work. if you want the success of this project, you need to have all the people inside the boat. One of our clients talked to us and wants to integrate the MES system and be
Jim Huysentruyt (17:09) Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine Bouchard (17:18) and RFID technology on their production floor and what they do they produce goods okay so and the product needs a couple of steps actually a lot of steps and some of them are automated and but maybe a lot of steps are manual
Jim Huysentruyt (17:47) Mm-hmm.
Catherine Bouchard (17:47) and their goal was to improve their efficiency on the plant floor for producing each product and of course minimize the work in progress on the plant floor.
the way they are working right now is all the parts of the same product move all together in the plant. So each part is going to each machine that maybe it needs to be manipulated by someone or a machine. So it means that
Jim Huysentruyt (18:17) Okay.
Catherine Bouchard (18:37) parts are going through a movement that doesn’t need to happen maybe. Because let’s say part A of product one is moving to machine one, but it doesn’t need to go into the machine.
But then it’s going to the machine B and, we don’t need to take this part. But this one, yes. So all the parts of the same product is moving through the plant. And this is a problem because it’s not efficient.
Jim Huysentruyt (18:54) Okay.
Catherine Bouchard (19:15) So the solutions that we are actually is a product in progress right now. the solution that we are put in place with them is an MES system, okay, with the BLE and RFID. So they are able to move each part to the machine that needs
to manipulate the part.
Jim Huysentruyt (19:49) I want to set that because we could you mentioned a couple times I don’t want to help educate our audience. So I’m gonna so explain MES what an MES system is at least at that level you’re talking about.
Catherine Bouchard (20:01) Yeah, good point. MES system is a manufacturing execution system. it’s a
software platform, okay, which is modular. You take what you need inside this system and mainly what it does is managing the work order from the ERP and dispatching the work to the machine, to the people and managing also the resources. So do you need these people to be at this machine? Yes, okay, and these people need to have
you know, this knowledge of the machine and so on. You can manage also the material, the tool that they need and it generates also lots of KPI to follow the production. You can also manage the quality, you know, if something happens to a product you can log the data based on the
Jim Huysentruyt (20:59) All right, okay.
Catherine Bouchard (21:08) the problem you have and so on. And then it’s the MES system communicate the data to the ERP when the work order is completed or at a specific step in the process. yeah, so that’s the MES system. Did I mention other things that I’m sorry? Yeah, it’s okay.
Jim Huysentruyt (21:33) No, no, no, every now and then I want to help our audience out because I think most of our audience probably knows, I think that was a great explanation of MES. Thank you. So, didn’t mean to divert your thought on where you’re going. I’ll get you.
Catherine Bouchard (21:45) Okay, good.
No worries. I think I was just about to finish the explanation of parts with a product and the part that is moving to each machine that doesn’t need to go there. So the MES and the tracking of all the material will…
will be needed because, you know, today they can follow the product inside the plant. easy. But when each part will go at the right place, it’s not going to be possible for a human to follow all the parts. So the technology is needed for that. And the main purpose of this example is when you have like 100 people
Jim Huysentruyt (22:19) Mm-hmm.
Yeah, different. Right. Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Catherine Bouchard (22:40) inside the plant, you need to be perfect and human and making sure that people go into the boat with you and use the system and you need to make sure also the technology is resolving the issue they have each day in the day to day.
Jim Huysentruyt (23:04) Right. And when you’re talking about everybody in the boat, you’re talking about everybody from the guys down doing the work and using the system, Those touch phones to IT, because I mean, what you’re discussing right now, lots of, I mean, IT needs to be very much involved, right? Then you have, you know, then you have all the bean counters because you’re talking about parts and people and all that side of it. you know, so
Catherine Bouchard (23:22) Yeah, of course.
Jim Huysentruyt (23:31) You know, that sounds like it’s a pretty big job, but it’s going pretty well. You’re in the process of that. Yeah. Well, I’ll be looking forward to hearing more about that later as it gets completed.
Catherine Bouchard (23:36) Yeah, exactly.
Of course, I’ll be happy to share the success of this project.
Jim Huysentruyt (23:45) Okay. We like success. Okay. And so I think you said you had another example. You said the two.
Catherine Bouchard (23:57) yeah, one,
The other example is about the production schedule.
there’s a lot of customer that cannot just stop producing because when they produce, they make money. So, I have one example is one of our customer has like more than one line, okay, one production line, but to be able to operate the production line, it takes like half of a day of setup time, okay? And of course,
cannot stop the line for fun. It involves half of a day and a loss of material because you know when they set up there’s material going through the machine, the line, and it’s not good to sell. So for that of course it requires like a good project management, being able to adapt
Jim Huysentruyt (24:49) That’s it. All right.
Catherine Bouchard (25:07) and more important putting yourself in their shoes because they need to produce product and you
will go there and stop the machine and you know people are stressed because the machine will work after you went and will you be available if something happen and you know so we need to establish a good plan with the customer as we are part of their team.
So what we do is we try to have many steps as possible to validate the quality of the system. And when I talk about quality is what I’m going to deliver is the same as we discussed.
And it will, is that system will work with the actual hardware? Do we need, you know, is there any hardware that need to be changed before we go there? So what we do is we having a quality procedure that is executed in the detail with the customer at our office.
Of course there’s a lot of simulation because we don’t have all the hardware that is in the plant, you
Jim Huysentruyt (26:39) Okay, but just to be clear, so what you’re doing in your office, you have a lab basically, and you’re setting up, you’re basically setting up as much as you can in your facility so you can go through and debug and do everything you need to do. there is, if it’s maybe there was something missing in the spec and they’re saying, hey, we need this. You could figure that out before getting into production.
Catherine Bouchard (26:45) Yes.
Yeah, because you know we’re a lot of in the software so it’s easy to simulate. But for example if we do a PLC migration we will have the new PLC at our office. So we will be able to put the code and the program inside the PLC and execute the real code in the real hardware but we will not have all the IOs. So the IOs will be simulated
Sometimes with an equipment that simulates the current, for example, or inside the PSC, we’re going to have code that simulates the hardware, which is not there.
Jim Huysentruyt (27:45) Right. And that’s the nice thing about the technology now at the PLC, it’s easy to simulate values and for your IO. Yeah. Nice. Okay. Okay. So I do have a question on, you know, when you’re going through this process and you have, you know, and it’s just not just this customer, but customers in general, when you’re in.
Catherine Bouchard (27:55) Yes, exactly.
Jim Huysentruyt (28:15) And how many times do you get to where you’re running through the, you know, the testing of the system, you’re kind of doing the pre factory acceptance test, right? Where you’re going through all the functionality according to the spec. Cause usually you start with a spec, right? You have, you know, I some, if they know how to spec, you’re writing one you go through and you meet that spec, right. And, and,
what I find is usually we can go through the whole simulation in the lab, right? It isn’t until you get on the plant floor and you start running through it and there’s something that they missed, right? Or we missed, but a lot of times it’s, yeah, we need this too, right? You know, so I just want to know your approach with the customer and bring them along nicely. yeah, cause they, cause
Catherine Bouchard (28:53) Of course.
Jim Huysentruyt (29:02) You’re getting that stress level, right? And now it’s like, no, we’re missing something. Now you’re at a boiling point. It’s how do you of ride that wave and get it back down to the success? Because you’ve had a lot of it, a lot of success. So I’m sure you run through those bumps.
Catherine Bouchard (29:19) Yeah, well the first question is, is it a blocking issue? If it’s not a blocking issue, we document that and we say, okay, that’s going to be for version two or three or four. And if it’s blocking, then, but of course we don’t have any choice to go into detail and making sure it’s working properly. Usually, we will try to…
Jim Huysentruyt (29:30) Right.
Catherine Bouchard (29:47) simulate that, making sure it’s working like we follow the same process as we do. Like you said, we have a functional description and based on that, we develop functionality and based on that, we do a factory acceptance test and the SAT after. So we go back to that.
level and we document making sure we don’t do it 20 times, you know. And then we develop, we make sure that, you know, often we have a team on the site, but we still have people here so they can work together to simulate here at our office what is new, making sure it’s okay. And then we install that on site.
Jim Huysentruyt (30:18) Mm-hmm.
Catherine Bouchard (30:40) and test it with the real world, I would say.
Jim Huysentruyt (30:45) Right. Right. Okay. So, so now you’re installed, you have things running. You know, what are some of the typical, as far as support goes, because you have a support team now, what are some of the typical things you see after it’s been implemented for a few months? I mean, as far as what, what, what, what, if you get a phone call, what is, is there a usual phone call that you, ones you could kind of expect or is it just, you know,
Catherine Bouchard (31:10) Well, it depends on the customer. would say the one, you have like two, three type of call, I would say. So one is the critical one that you need to react right now because the plant is down. Exactly. So, you know, sometimes there’s something on the network.
Jim Huysentruyt (31:21) Okay.
Okay. That’s all hands on deck. Okay. Yeah.
Catherine Bouchard (31:39) Major, anything is no more communication with the equipment or something like that. So we need to figure out with the IT team, the local IT team and so on.
The second one is, well, you know, something happened. It’s not major, but we would like to improve because most of our customers are long-term customers and we do, you know, improvement on the system.
Jim Huysentruyt (32:07) Right.
So continuous improvement is important. And that’s one thing when you put a system in, you kind of set those expectations like this is what we have now. as you start using it, they’re getting the experience, you’re getting the experience. And you can say, hey, if we tweak this, or we do this, or we add this, you could get sometimes small changes. You can get big improvement.
Catherine Bouchard (32:16) Yeah, of course.
Yeah, of course. And you know, who is the better person to have a good idea, the one who is having the problem. So sometimes they have good idea. And the third one I would say is training issue. So new people or, you know, people that don’t know how to.
Jim Huysentruyt (32:40) Yep, yep, exactly,
Catherine Bouchard (32:53) to work with the system or something like that. it’s a good point to start because sometimes we say, OK, I think we need to review the training of this person and this person and so on. yeah.
Jim Huysentruyt (33:09) Now, do you work with them for, cause you’re putting kind of a training for this system you put in. Do you work with them for onboarding for new people? Cause you know, turnover is a big thing as far as at least give them a procedure. when someone new comes in, they need to know at least this much, this, this and this.
Catherine Bouchard (33:28) Yeah, well usually it’s done internally, I would say by the champion that we identify. Yeah, but it happens that we go into onsite and make the training of the new people.
Jim Huysentruyt (33:33) There you go. Okay.
Yeah. Nice. So before we go, I’d like to just ask one more question. Really, it’s where do you see the future of our space? you think it’s continuing? mean, as far as what kind of, maybe you could just talk a little bit about the future and where you see we need to adapt to some of the new technology like AI and some of those kinds of things.
Catherine Bouchard (34:12) Yeah, well, from my point of view, because I’m more in the manufacturing industry, I think we need, of course, to get an eye on the…
AI that will play a role, of course. There’s several players that started to integrate AI into their software yet. It’s starting. We see a couple of great…
Jim Huysentruyt (34:40) Mm-hmm.
Catherine Bouchard (34:52) example on you know maintenance we see also on planning and this this one is interesting because you know ERP a giant in the market is trying to get more and more in the
Jim Huysentruyt (35:01) Okay.
Catherine Bouchard (35:12) on the plan floor because they are not there yet. They need to improve their system because it doesn’t mean that because you’re doing ERP system that you’re good at SCADA and MES system. It’s a world, the ERP is a world, the same for MES and SCADA system. And I think this is one of
Jim Huysentruyt (35:15) Yeah.
you
Catherine Bouchard (35:43) This is one subject I need to keep high on because I think, yeah, like I said, think ERP giant will try to go there and maybe integrate MES and SCADA inside the solution. don’t know. Yeah.
Jim Huysentruyt (35:53) Right.
Yeah, we see the big guys trying. Yeah, they keep trying and it’s at least most of the example I can give is where it doesn’t always work out.
Catherine Bouchard (36:08) No, and what we see on the market right now is not really good, I would say. Doesn’t mean that it doesn’t solve any problem, but it doesn’t… You cannot compare that to a complete MES or SCADA assessment.
Jim Huysentruyt (36:16) Yeah.
Right. It’s also, but sorry.
No, exactly. And the thing is, don’t think that, I mean, the experience right now, like the experience that Centris and you bring to the customer at the plant floor level, I just don’t think that the SAPs of the world can tackle everything. No, and you have tools like the SCADA, right?
Catherine Bouchard (36:42) It’s not the same world,
Jim Huysentruyt (36:51) the MES packages, some of the BLE packages, some of the RFID technologies. You have tools that work with that and you know how to integrate them, put them together. Cause it’s still a puzzle, right? You’re putting it together. And thank you so much for coming. Cause your experience is fantastic. I’ve really enjoyed this, but thank you, Catherine. As far as I’m concerned, this was a great conversation. Thank you.
Catherine Bouchard (37:20) Thank you, Jim.
Jim Huysentruyt (37:21) Okay, and that.
